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 GhetDatMoney420
Stranger
Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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 Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! 
#368740 - 02/20/10 02:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Okay by trying to explain myself and my intentions i will try my best to not seem like a grower dummy.
Tell me if this is probable:
1 grow grow room (18' X 15')
2 Light fixtures (metal halide 500 W / HPS (what wattage?))
I grabbed 120 seeds ( super skunk )
so i plan to grow 40-50 plants in one room...possible? or ney?
Tell me if there is a flaw in only have two light fixtures or if i may need more and tricks n tips about keeping the electric bill on the De-L
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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#368786 - 02/20/10 03:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lol good lord man... where to start.
ok, a 15x18' room is freakin' huge. you should easily be able to get 50 plants in there, but closer to 100 if you want.
you need WAAAAAAY more light than that. 2 lights? no. like 8-10 lights of 1000W each. I'm not sure what you mean by 500W since they don't make MH or HPS in that wattage, you need to be thinking of 1000W lights minimum.
I think you need to start doing some SERIOUS research if you plan on taking on a project this size. I've been doing this for years and I'm still intimidated by a grow room that size, there are a ton of things you need to think about to keep 100 plants happy with 10KW of light and if you don't plan ahead I can almost guarantee failure. however, if you do your research and plan everything correctly from the start I can guarantee way more weed than you'll know what to do with.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#368813 - 02/20/10 03:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah, that's a massive grow. see how many lights they use in this grow pictured? lots of light. the more the better.
edit:
 at your name and this thread. Welcome to the growery!
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Simple
Lover
Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 32
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#368976 - 02/20/10 08:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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First of all, that's a lot of ficking space to cover.
Your a beginner, and big can get overwhelming.
Do u have any experience ?
How much funds can you invest?
How long do u plan to cultivate?
Have you ever had any gardening in your past?
My best advice is to do wha I did, read read read. It's all almost here
there's just a few minor things missing on this site. You need to consider All
te factors tha might come into play 3-4 months ahead. You dont want to start
your grow with holes in your grow plan.
I researched for 3 weeks b4 I decided I had all I needed to even get the seed out
o the bag. I will do a grow log once I get em cured, but the bud is amazingly redonkulously
stankliaciously looking.
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Sifting through the shit of life
  
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High 
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#368979 - 02/20/10 08:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You aren't going to get rich quick here partna...Grow a few plant like veg 12 then flower 12 then veg 12 more while the other 12 flower etc while you build that room..its going to take you a good fucking while so you might as well learn some basics and apply them to your build.
Don't take my advice...thats fine but you will end up with a coaster product which i will spare your eyes of and youll lose money on your goddamn power bill.
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Suck my balls America
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: mhbound]
#368980 - 02/20/10 08:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i must add though that i am a firm believer in the whole GoBigOrGoHome theory.
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Suck my balls America
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! *DELETED* [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#368982 - 02/20/10 08:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by DoPeYsMuRfReason for deletion: n
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: DoPeYsMuRf]
#368985 - 02/20/10 08:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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And you need to do a lot more reading...a ton more...you aren't growing whats his name jack the beanstalk
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Suck my balls America
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
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 Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#369023 - 02/20/10 09:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hope your great at cloning.
I'm feeding two 1000 watt lights. What a job.
I have a new respect for people running multiple lights.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: KaptKid]
#369233 - 02/21/10 11:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I will second or third what everyone else said. I am flowering my first plant with 5 more clones going into 3 gallon buckets today. There is a lot to know and I am glad I didn't start with 5 or 10.
If you are new to it I would say start with like 10 or so tops. they grow quick and as you get the hang of everything you can pop a bunch more beans and get them going to take clones from your best mom.
As for the room size and all I know a guy who just dropped 8 grand on equipment for a room that size. I have not seen it but I know it's fully equipped with filters dehumidifier AC co2 the works. That is a lot of equipment to take care of, let alone the ladies. you will kick yourself if you go to big and have a catastrophe. I would think a starting crop of 10 or 20 would be much more manageable and doable on a fairly small budget. once the first run is good then re-invest and set up the rest of the room and your veg room.
That's what I would do, and if I ever get divorced (or they legalize) that's what I will do.
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#369237 - 02/21/10 11:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Take it from somebody who has a few grow of a decent size. You have a long way to go. Light supplies, nutrients, soil or hydro? If soil what is it gonna take to water that large a grow by hand every few days and who is going to do the work if you wanna leave town. Not exactly a closet grow you can go and show the friends.
Good to think big I'm all for it but you have to think big for the whole picture. Big garden means big bucks to start off with and big work once up and running. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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GhetDatMoney420
Stranger
Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Magash]
#369242 - 02/21/10 11:36 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Man... in response to all the post:
I thank everyone for taking the time to post their input. i am fairly new, but i have been planning and reading and bloging for the past 3 weeks. I am going to try to do this lil bit with a buddy of mine and i know that we have our work cut out for us, but when i read and reread the posts i am becoming more aware of the kind of support that this site offers. i appreciate everyones feedback....But let me ask this one last question...
WTF 10kw of light for...um not a expert in electricty and watts but wont 10kw of light tip off the police on my op?
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#369243 - 02/21/10 11:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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not if you pay the bill and don't draw attention to yourself.
think about it all the lights in your house turned on at once plus your AC and a load of wash going is close to 10kw/h
all it looks like is a big payday for the electric company, just don't make em wait for it.
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#369244 - 02/21/10 11:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Depends on where the grow is. In Cali they could care less how much power you use.
What you wanna remember is 1000watts for every 4x4 sq feet of floor space.
I've been there.  
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#369246 - 02/21/10 11:43 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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and 10kw is not that much 15'x18' is 270sf, 270sf/300,000 lumens(assuming 30k lumen per bulb) is only 1100 lumen per foot...
my CFL box has 2 3900lumen and 2 2klumen bulbs for 18"x24".
edit: not sure that math is really relevant with how lumens add and subtract and all but it puts it into perspective.
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
Edited by pha3r0 (02/21/10 11:48 AM)
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GhetDatMoney420
Stranger
Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#369250 - 02/21/10 11:48 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i have purchased a seperate house that is really out in the sticks man... and i am not living at the house i am only using it for what i talked about. This is my GREEN HOUSE i could say. The only power in this house will be used with lights and lights only. So 10kw nothing to get all worried about from the stand point of the electric co or the feds? lol...
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#369252 - 02/21/10 11:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would say no, as long as the bills are payed on time the electric company really should not give a shit, why turn in one of their biggest customers?
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#369255 - 02/21/10 11:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lets just say I've seen many many grows over the 10000k mark and never a prob with the power co unless the bill isn't payed.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Magash]
#369263 - 02/21/10 12:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Depends on where the grow is. In Cali they could care less how much power you use.
What you wanna remember is 1000watts for every 4x4 sq feet of floor space.
I've been there.
aspca ftw
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Suck my balls America
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: GhetDatMoney420]
#370069 - 02/21/10 11:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
GhetDatMoney420 said:
i have purchased a seperate house that is really out in the sticks man... and i am not living at the house i am only using it for what i talked about. This is my GREEN HOUSE i could say. The only power in this house will be used with lights and lights only. So 10kw nothing to get all worried about from the stand point of the electric co or the feds? lol...
Well how did you expect to grow that many plants without a crap load of light??
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Mud
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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I have recently upped my wattage to 3200w and added a light mover its still not enough for my room of 11x16'. I will end up going 6 1k cool tubes on the next round.
Make sure you go 220v even with 5kw total my power bill is still reasonable and I attribute it to the 220v
Buy all your nutes at once for the entire grow, I would suggest going with all the same line and get the feeding schedule to guide you if you dont know what to add when.
I had an easy 100 hours of labor putting it all together, make sure you have a realistic timeline.
growing with a partner is also very hard even for the best of friends, being as you both are so new I would make sure you both read the same grow guides.
I can tell you from exp it doesnt matter how low key you keep it your partner or someone you have told will talk about it, you or your partners soon to be ex wives, butt hurt friends that feel you should have included them in your grow. Not everyone has the ability to keep such an exciting thing a secret I hope you can evaluate yourself and your partners ability to keep quiet.
Good luck on your grow, I also like the go big mentality
Mud
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Mud]
#370265 - 02/22/10 08:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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oh man if you're working with 11x18 I would suggest staying away from the cooltubes. they're great for small grows but they suck at reflecting. you're going to be wasting a ton of your light if you use all those in a room that size, and I hate to see you wasting light if you're already running 6000W...
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Mud
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#370721 - 02/22/10 02:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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the reflectors are only on the tubes for the first 30-40 days or so after that I need the light to be able to shine higher than the reflector allows.
The hood takes up height around 14 inches and I already sacrificed a 6-7 inches for the light rail and I want that last 20 or so inches. If I need a little more height at the end I can disconnect and use the cool tubes from both sides with the current venting system.
Mud
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Mud]
#370805 - 02/22/10 04:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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why would you need that? are you severely space limited? most of the time it's more efficient to keep your plants somewhat low anyway
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#371337 - 02/23/10 07:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah thats an odd requirement and what was that you said HB, about about light energy being proportional to the angle of incident? light hitting the leaf at 45% is 52% less??? maybe i am on crack it's early still
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#371373 - 02/23/10 08:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes. the amount of energy your surface absorbs is Xcos(y) Where x is your original wattage, and y is the angle of incidence.
so a 1000W light hitting the plant at 45 degrees -- 1000 cos(45) = 525.3W of light
and that doesn't even deal with the exponential diminishment of distance
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#371399 - 02/23/10 09:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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nerd 
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Mud
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#371885 - 02/23/10 09:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am at 3200w of hps and the cool tubes read the same on the light meter at 30" as the hood at 30". Granted my light meter sucks and I dont entirely trust it I would need some kind of proof that the cool tubes reflect less light before I would not use them over hoods when I upgrade again.
sorry for derailing this thread mang!
Mud
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Mud]
#371901 - 02/23/10 09:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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common sense is your proof. the reflective portion only wraps around about 30% of the bulb, whereas a normal reflector covers about 60-70% of the bulb. that extra 30%-40% of light gets reflected downwards instead of going to the ceiling. makes sense, no?
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#371947 - 02/23/10 09:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
common sense is your proof. the reflective portion only wraps around about 30% of the bulb, whereas a normal reflector covers about 60-70% of the bulb. that extra 30%-40% of light gets reflected downwards instead of going to the ceiling. makes sense, no?
yes, yes it does.
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Mud
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#372185 - 02/24/10 03:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I with not disagree with that logic although I would have put it a little nicer myself.
Look at the pic of my room(minus the screen), I dont know what exactly I have for max height but my brain is telling me I could get 20 maybe 30 more inches of growth in the center of my room if I run the cool tubes 2' off center at the end. My brain has been wrong before.
I can get the cool tubes 5" or so closer than the hood, does that not seem like a fair trade off considering how fast the exponential diminishment of distance.
I am not trying to debate, just interested in improving. The only thing for sure is the other 3kw will be there in some form for next harvest.
Mud
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Mud]
#372247 - 02/24/10 07:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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the question that comes to mind when reading yours is do you need an extra 20 or 30 inches? do you need the extra 5? looks like your room is 7ft tall or so? even a large sativa you can keep under that happily(with training). even if you your strain of choice needs all that space putting lights to the side of a plant is almost counter productive. case in point the last plant my buddy grew before i started helping him. it got to tall to keep his HPS above it so he moved it to the side. after 3 weeks it looked pouty all the time thirsty or not. all the leaves were pointing to the light, or trying to. I put a single 65w CFL above the plant and the next day all the leaves had pointed back up even though the 150w HPS was closer to at least half of them. they just know the sun should up i guess
and there is integra21, hes doing a huge scrog with 3ft of height to work with.
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Mud]
#372267 - 02/24/10 07:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmm you're right, rereading that and I do sound like a dick.  apologies good sir.
That is a beautiful room you have there! I'm extremely jealous 
Anyhow, another thing to consider is that light intensity diminishes exponentially with increased distance from the bulb. so regardless of your reflector choice, having a tall plant is less effective for maximizing yield than just scrogging one just like you have there.
Now granted, on a tall plant you'll get more overall weight, but most of it will be under-developed popcorn bud from the lower branches, stuff that you likely won't smoke anyway. If you're one of those people who just love hash, then by all means go for it 
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pha3r0
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#372272 - 02/24/10 07:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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damnit harry stop upsetting the members! no my reply is a bit critical too i guess. you said exactly what i meant by 'do you need the extra 20-30 inches'. you might have it but having plants that tall indoors just seems a waste.
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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz
"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound
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DrGreenThumb
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 487
Loc: Phish Tour
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#372285 - 02/24/10 08:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anything much over 5ft. just seems like a waste of light resources to me.
But what the hell would I know? I only have a 400W.
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss
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Mud
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: pha3r0]
#372654 - 02/24/10 04:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Great info thats exactly what I needed to hear. I just didnt want to run out of room with all the different methods I got jumbled in there now, not as viable of a back up plan as I would like but oh well.
I would gladly continue this in my revamp thread if you have any other comments.
Thanks guys
Mud
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Simple
Lover
Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 32
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: mhbound]
#378666 - 03/04/10 10:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mhbound said:
i must add though that i am a firm believer in the whole GoBigOrGoHome theory.
paranoia gee
FOOL, go swollor sum fucking stones and man the fuck up!
"Go Big, or Go Home" Needs Guts.
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Sifting through the shit of life
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Lucid
Monster Plant Creator
Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 1,082
Loc: Canada-ish.
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Simple]
#379094 - 03/06/10 12:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Guts indeed, Do you need money really badly or something?
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Simple]
#379118 - 03/06/10 02:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simple said:
Quote:
mhbound said:
i must add though that i am a firm believer in the whole GoBigOrGoHome theory.
paranoia gee
FOOL, go swollor sum fucking stones and man the fuck up!
"Go Big, or Go Home" Needs Guts.
what is that supposed to mean? Go big or go home only
applies if you the knowledge and skills to make it worth your while. Doesn't matter how fucking big your room is, if you suck at growing you won't ever pay it off or make it worth your while.
There's a phrase for people who go big or go home "with guts"
it's called retardation
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hisheater
trigger man
Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 61
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Newbie Trying To Do It BIGGGGG! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#379136 - 03/06/10 03:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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heh heh nice highjacking.
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They call them fingers but I never see them fing... Oh wait, there they go.
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Doo Yoo Hookah???
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