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 yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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 working on my cool idea 
#244212 - 06/29/09 04:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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so i've been mulling over / sketching ideas for a badass mini grow rig.
the main special thing is making it a sealed environment. obviously a traditional air conditioning unit would be far too big for a low wattage (less than 400w) setup. so i'm gathering parts to make a sort of water cooled DIY ac unit. i just ordered a radiator that is normally designed for water cooling PCs, along with 1/2" in/out adapters for it so i can use poly tubing and a submersible pump.
the idea i have right now incorporates a cold water reservoir chilled by a recycled water cooler (the kind you have in an office). the res is cooled that way, water is pumped to the radiator which is used as a heat exchanger in the grow. viola!
and with a tiny tiny thing like i'm envisioning (2x3 or smaller) you would be able to provide adequate CO2 with simple things like brewing or dry ice because there would be so little air involved and you could seal the rig EXTREMELY well.
anyone done something like this or have thoughts on it?
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 mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High 
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#244230 - 06/29/09 04:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have no idea man but if you get it going I really want to see your design. If you need help I'll do what I can and ask some people I know who would be able to answer some questions...But I can't really give much advice here other than it sounds cool.
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Suck my balls America
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: mhbound]
#244253 - 06/29/09 04:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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well if there was some data available on heat output of smaller HPS bulbs (150-250w) that would be cool. im trying to figure out what kind of thermal energy i'm dealing with, and also trying to figure out the chiller power that typical office water coolers have.
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#244298 - 06/29/09 06:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can probably do some research tonight and help you there. Probably nothing that you haven't found but I'll see what I can find.
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Suck my balls America
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: mhbound]
#244310 - 06/29/09 07:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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well just oversize...assume that the bulb wattage is the heat load...and just buy a cooler that can handle that cooling capacity...that way you know you have plenty of cooling power and can just adjust the cold water flow through the radiator to regulate the temp...also you may want to think about a way to collect the condensation that may form on your radiator...as this may cause fungal growth in ur box.
just for reference...
1 Ton of Cooling = 12000 BTU = 3516 Watts
if you need help with the calcs ill be glad to assist...i love stuff like this...and if not i will enjoy watching the progression of this cool idea.  
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#244320 - 06/29/09 07:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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well assume i'm doing 250 watts of cooling (250w light)
thats 853 btu.
the radiator i ordered is this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108086
cooling data on office type water coolers will be useful...
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#244323 - 06/29/09 07:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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just looked and one water cooler i found looks to be 592 BTUs per hour. does that mean the same as rating a light by just BTUs without a unit-time?
so would 592 BTUs per hour be about 175 watts?
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trichome
THC
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 104
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#244383 - 06/29/09 08:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
yellownotepad said:
just looked and one water cooler i found looks to be 592 BTUs per hour. does that mean the same as rating a light by just BTUs without a unit-time?
so would 592 BTUs per hour be about 175 watts?
kinda; the time-unit is unnecessary in this case, since both are rates of change. 175 watts doesn't have a unit-time, so it would be 592 BTUs:175 watts OR 592 BTUs per hour:175 watts per hour. And of course electricity is billed in kilowatts per hour.
Your idea could fill a niche market of otherwise-not-growing potheads 
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: trichome]
#244392 - 06/29/09 09:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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so how do i find the actual btu's of heat i need to deal with??? i know obviously 250w hps light bulbs convert some of the energy to heat and some to light. whats the ratio? is there a rule of thumb for other lighting systems? could i use the lumens per watt to determine how much energy is blown off as heat (watts minus light energy = heat energy?)
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#244420 - 06/29/09 09:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Q. How do I calculate the BTU's for a specific unit?
A. The standard calculation is 3.41 BTU's per watt. Calculate as follows: for a 1000W lamp--1000W x 3.41 BTU's = 3410 BTU's
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Suck my balls America
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: mhbound]
#244673 - 06/30/09 03:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well...BTUs are actually an amount of energy...its SI equivilent is the kilowatt-hour...and power companies bill on total amount of energy used (kilowatt-hours)
Therefore, Watts are a rate unit (joules per second), as are BTUs per hour. So when you are looking at heating and cooling...you want to know the maximum rate at which the light can produce heat (Watts) and the rate at which the cooler can remove heat (either Watts, BTU's per hour, or tons cooling)
Also is there any data available for that radiator as far as surface area and material? I really need to know that in order to help much...as the cooler itself can be awesome...but if you cant absorb enough heat at the radiator then it wont matter.
I'll be on later to answer any more questions and to see if i can help further
Peace
agmotes165
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#244682 - 06/30/09 04:25 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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He told me it was designed for 2 120mm fans. I don't know anything else but that gives some idea. I'm trying to read more about this but I've never used something like this is a big application.
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Suck my balls America
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: mhbound]
#244703 - 06/30/09 05:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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how tall will the box be?
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Buddy
Mr.
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 995
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#244718 - 06/30/09 06:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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It sounds to me like you're planning on putting everything into the box. The resevoir, the cooler and the heater plus any adapters in/out ac etc. Why not make a seperate compartment Bar the radiator obviously or have these things external? And do a good job of sealing the box around the wires/tubing needed for the radiator to work? Maybe keep the. Maybe insulate the resevoir so it doesn't heat up outside. Some of your parts will generate heat. The Adapters and some motors. Possible to keep these outside the box?
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro!
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Buddy]
#244723 - 06/30/09 06:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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no actually here's what i planned in greater detail
main chamber is rigged like an air cooled light setup. intake on hood, duct to lung chamber on top. hot air from room/light goes through cooling exchanger and is blown back down into chamber (at plant level.
cooling water res is a separate compartment and then the chiller cooling that water is external (imagine something like a fridge or water cooler, where the coils are outside on the back).
twin 120mm pc fans will be attached to the cooling radiator, and a duct booster will be inline somewhere on the ducting to help with flow.
the grow chamber itself will be very perfectly totally sealed, so that CO2 can be used in an extremely efficient way. i might even figure out a way to rig environmental meters/controls to the outside, and either put a webcam or a window (with shutters) on the outside so things can be checked on with letting teh CO2 out.
the nutrient res can be in a separate compartment below with hard plumbing going into the grow environment. this way the res can be refilled/adjusted again without disturbing teh CO2 levels.
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#244724 - 06/30/09 06:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
how tall will the box be?
however tall would be necessary 
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#244992 - 07/01/09 01:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
Also is there any data available for that radiator as far as surface area and material? I really need to know that in order to help much...as the cooler itself can be awesome...but if you cant absorb enough heat at the radiator then it wont matter.
here's what i could gather from the manufacturer:
Quote:
Quote:
Example on how to read the above curve:
In a Swiftech system flowing ~1.0 GPM we observe that with the fans used (*) running at 7v, a 210 Watts load -corresponding to an overclocked/overvolted quad-core Intel processor can be dissipated with a mere 10°C temperature rise of the coolant over ambient air.
Quote:
according to this chart, if i use a 240gph (4gpm) pump and run fans with their specs (shown later on,) at 12v, i should have no problem achieving a thermal resistance of .25c/w? I actually went ahead and picked up 1/2" fittings for the pump so it should be slightly better than their 3/8" fitting (which is the lower blue line in this chart).
if thermal resistance is .25c/w that seems to indicate that it would heat the coolant to 6.25*C over ambient temp given 250w of heat? am i getting this right?
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#245099 - 07/01/09 09:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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yea dude that looks good...and these specs are based on a 10oC delta T so if you are going for a target temp of 80o F...you would only need 72oF water temps...and if you can get the water temp lower than that then you dont have to run as high a flowrate through the radiator...so using that...you should figure out the wattage of the 2 fans you are gonna use (volts times amps) and figure out the wattage for any other fans you are gonna be using...and add that to the 250W lighting load...and then size ur pump for that amount of heat dissipation according to the charts...let me know what size tubing you are gonna use for the coolant lines and how many feet of tubing in the whole loop, then i can figure out what size pump you would need...and if you can find a pressure drop in the water lines for the radiator that would make that calc much more accurate...
Also...you will need a water cooler/refridgerating unit that is rated for the same combined wattage that you will calculate in the previous paragraph...like lights+fans wattage.
let me know...i love doing this stuff 
agmotes165
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#245135 - 07/02/09 12:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Will those fans move enough air? That's what I'm still stuck on.
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Suck my balls America
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#245149 - 07/02/09 03:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
yea dude that looks good...and these specs are based on a 10oC delta T so if you are going for a target temp of 80o F...you would only need 72oF water temps...and if you can get the water temp lower than that then you dont have to run as high a flowrate through the radiator...so using that...you should figure out the wattage of the 2 fans you are gonna use (volts times amps) and figure out the wattage for any other fans you are gonna be using...and add that to the 250W lighting load...and then size ur pump for that amount of heat dissipation according to the charts...let me know what size tubing you are gonna use for the coolant lines and how many feet of tubing in the whole loop, then i can figure out what size pump you would need...and if you can find a pressure drop in the water lines for the radiator that would make that calc much more accurate...
Also...you will need a water cooler/refridgerating unit that is rated for the same combined wattage that you will calculate in the previous paragraph...like lights+fans wattage.
let me know...i love doing this stuff
agmotes165
design isnt concrete enough for tubing runs, but they will be 1/2" tubing.
and heres another thought, what if instead of a cooling/refrig unit, the system just used an external radiator (or two) to dissipate heat into the outside-of-the-grow air?
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#245165 - 07/02/09 06:51 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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that would work fine...just make sure you have a low enough external air temp to handle the heat disapation...im sure 2 radiators would be fine though
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#247834 - 07/09/09 10:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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whatever became of this?
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#247854 - 07/10/09 02:45 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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well i'm building a cab right now as we speak, but i currently dont have the plans all hashed out for the water cooling so i'm going to air cool it to start.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#247861 - 07/10/09 06:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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what are you missing on your design? It could be as simple as an oversized water cooler...a reservoir...and a fountain pump...with some sort of throtlling valve in the water line to control the flow of cool water into the radiator...and then adjust the valve position to get the desired temp.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#247897 - 07/10/09 11:52 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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the chiller part is what im not sure about right now. i've got the pump, 1/2" lines, radiator, fans. i just figured i'll deal with it when the cab is done.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#247942 - 07/10/09 02:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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yea man...let me know what kind of equipment you end up with in this cab...and the various wattages...and i can probly get you in the ballpark
goodluck man...
agmotes165
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: Data]
#248069 - 07/11/09 02:31 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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just finished working on the cabinet some more.
revised plans - i won't be water cooling the environment. HOWEVER, i think i may try using the radiator to manage water temps.
to that end, the cab now has a 6" duct booster type fan blowing out the back upper left corner. im also thinking of putting the radiator attached to the back of the cab, with two super quiet pc fans blowing on it. the water from the DWC can circulate through this (with a pump of course) and that should help to keep the dwc cool! and if temps in the solution really become a problemt i can always submerge the radiator in a cooler of water with ice in it.
i used 5/8" fiberboard to make a new back and floor to the cabinet. i'm using the pieces of the front, plus some more fiberboard to make the entire face of teh cabinet look exactly as it did when it was normal, but now the whole front will be a door that swings open. for hinges i'm using recessed ones that you see on high end cabinets, so there will be no visible hinge from outside! also these hinges are self-closing so they will more or less keep the door from opening on its own.
the DWC is a 10gal rubbermaid bin. i built a scrog frame from 3/4" pvc that anchors itself to the lid of the dwc tub.
right now the space for the canopy is about 18x30 inches, or just a tiny bit under 4 square feet. i'm not sure how to light that. i could go 1x 250w, 2x 150w, or 2x/3x 70w. any thoughts on this would be interesting to hear. i dont think i'm going to use a 250w, since the increase in yield wouldnt be worth it. i'm leaning towards 2x 150w since that would put me at around 75w/square foot.
pics when i get some. but if you're curious, the cabinet is an ikea malm dresser, in black. like this one http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nD6LLf0Hz7Q/SGZfOPSYcJI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/_Oy_DNb57JI/IMG_1435.JPG
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: working on my cool idea [Re: yellownotepad]
#248070 - 07/11/09 02:40 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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forgot to mention im putting in grounded receptacles (as in the inside of my cab will have outlets) so i dont have any power strip bullshit. 2 outlet receptacle on the top of each side. will just have a pigtail coming out the back for single power cord to plug the whole rig in. going to see if i can rewire a timer to just time one of the receptacles (fan + light) without having to be in a plug.
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