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 Simisu
 
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in 
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 Building a good skeleton   1
#194063 - 02/10/09 03:20 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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we should get a good skeleton going for this to be a good resource, a clear progression and an easy way to navigate it, i'll try to list here the outline for a skeleton with different basic subjects. i'm sure it can and should be improved upon but i'm just trying to start something rolling, some sort of plan to go on rather then leave it all to random contributions... people want to contribute and this would hopefully make it easier for them.
forward
- why to grow,
- about the plant,
- the high,
- medical MJ
- safety...
GROW CYCLES- what's a grow cycle (describing different cycles from seed/clone)
- sprouting
- veg state
- premature flowering
- flowering
SOIL - what is soil, best soil composition,
- roots,
- soil PH,
- watering,
- root lock
- re potting
LIGHTING- sun, photosynthesis
- HPS
- MH
- fluorescents
- what not to use and why...
VENTILATION- temps
- humidity
- methods for keeping cool
INDOOR- planing a good indoor grow
- different elements to take care of (safety, lighting/ventilation/number of plants/reflectors....)
OUTDOOR- safety
- a time for sowing and a time for harvest
- picking a spot (accessibility, safety and so on...)
- pests
NUTRIENTS- why and how to give ferts
- different needs in different stages
- different kinds of ferts (NPK/compost/liqiud frets....)
- over fertilizing (identify and treat)
- fret deprivation
PESTS
GROWING METHODS- SEXING
- TOPPING/FIM
- CLONING
- SOG/ScrOG
- TRAINING/SUPERCROPPING
- TRIMMING/PRUNING
- CO2
- MOTHERS AND BONSAI MOTHERS
- CROSSING STRAINS AND SEED MAKING
HERMAPHRODITISM
HIDROPONICS (i don't really know much about that so this is really short)- how it works generally
- different kinds of setups
- different issues (i'm lost here
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HARVEST- harvesting, curing and long term storage
so yeah, anything can be expanded upon but i think it's a good start so people could fill in the blanks... at least i hope so!
any comments or insights are welcome, feel free to contribute!
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 It's a WEED man! 
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#194112 - 02/10/09 08:38 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I very much agree that there needs to be some structure in the way we store our documents; I think sirius agrees as well, he made all of the existing framework that is there. If you want to start adding the required folders to this area (GrowFaqs) we can really get the ball rolling.
 
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#194654 - 02/11/09 06:09 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i'm not sure that would be so smart right now... if you get all those empty links new visitors would be very frustrated going through them all
we'll see...
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It's a WEED man!
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 Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#194774 - 02/11/09 03:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Penguin said:
I think sirius agrees as well, he made all of the existing framework that is there.
Actually, I didn't make all of it, but did start adding some folders with some good descriptions to kind of help direct later development of different kinds of topics...
I really like a skeleton like that, but more as a comprehensive grow guide than the model for the entire Wiki. I always thought it would be a good idea to lead off with a solid presentation to help out the newbs who might otherwise get lost in the Wiki, and I think putting together something along these lines would be great. This kind of model is pretty much similar to any complete grow guide, and having a user-created one would be excellent - it is really one of the major things we are lacking right now, and focusing on it would be a great thing to work on first.
While the Wiki needs a lot of work yet, it does have a good start as far as the way it is organized. Part of the goal with the wiki itself is to encourage random contributions on any aspect, let everyone fill in as much information on anything as they feel fit, and do our best to organize it. Right now its just pretty empty, clicking on Cultivation Information once you click Grow Marijuana doesn't really get you anywhere. 
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Annom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Sirius] 1
#194790 - 02/11/09 03:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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What is the difference between 'Cultivation Information' and 'Grow FAQ'. Is there a clear difference between information and questions? You can find info about the same subject in Grow FAQ and Cultivation Information.
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Sirius] 1
#194804 - 02/11/09 03:59 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sirius said:
I really like a skeleton like that, but more as a comprehensive grow guide than the model for the entire Wiki. I always thought it would be a good idea to lead off with a solid presentation to help out the newbs who might otherwise get lost in the Wiki, and I think putting together something along these lines would be great. This kind of model is pretty much similar to any complete grow guide, and having a user-created one would be excellent - it is really one of the major things we are lacking right now, and focusing on it would be a great thing to work on first.
that was exactly my intention (i more or less copied the headers from my grow guide) and of course i wasn't suggesting it as an outline for the whole of the wiki...
Quote:
While the Wiki needs a lot of work yet, it does have a good start as far as the way it is organized. Part of the goal with the wiki itself is to encourage random contributions on any aspect, let everyone fill in as much information on anything as they feel fit, and do our best to organize it. Right now its just pretty empty, clicking on Cultivation Information once you click Grow Marijuana doesn't really get you anywhere.
again i agree, the fact that right now there's nothing really there is exactly what we're trying to change so again i'm calling out for anyone who wants to take part to do just that.
first of all as a skeleton i'm sure the wording as an actual title in the wiki can be much better, then we can add descriptions for each title and then once we have some article to use the ready made structure to add on the wiki.
i'm pretty sure it would deter many users if they saw the wiki full of empty titles...
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It's a WEED man!
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Annom] 1
#194806 - 02/11/09 04:05 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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good question, the answer is probably no right now.
personally i think there is space for two separate sections with one as a comprehensive guide as i'm trying to outline and the other with things that are more speculative or specific like "ExPerTusr92's easy to construct grow room" or "fertcompany's usage detail for DWC grow" and so on and so fourth.
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It's a WEED man!
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Annom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#194812 - 02/11/09 04:33 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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For the Growery Grow Guide I was thinking about adding more visual content than most grow guides I have seen. This will make it less dull and gives newbs a better overview and learning experience. One of the things I like is an option overview for different sections/categories of growing, for example: light, watering, medium, smell control, nutrients etc. Here is a prototype of an options diagram that I just made, with advantages and disadvantages per light option:
It would be a part of the lightning grow guide section to help give newbs a complete overview of all the options within a part of growing.
What do you think? Is this useful when done correct?
Any other ideas for visual tools that can give a quick summary and overview of the (complete) basics of growing?
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Annom] 1
#194820 - 02/11/09 05:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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that's an excellent idea!
you think we can apply it as the actual presentation of information on the wiki? a sort of visual wiki?
instead of having titles and subtitles that lead to the topic with more titles and so on.... we can made this picture for example clickable?
so once you've clicked on light you instantaneously get some sort of idea about the structure and importance of the information inside...
i guess it would mean lots of work on the actual wiki so maybe that's not a viable option but at least to present the picture and have it correlate with the information that's actually there (the structure rather then all the info)
regarding the example you would have to stay away from things like "efficient (12%)" since that means nothing without context. also in this example would be better to describe incandescent lighting as inefficient or to explain that it is not a viable option rather then elaborating on why its less good.
but basically i like the idea and i think it would benefit each subject that's large enough...
if you try hard to divide smaller subjects like that only for the sake of making a visual representation you might just end up making the impression that it's more complicated then it really is.
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It's a WEED man!
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#195030 - 02/12/09 08:13 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I really like that you have the efficiency on there. (I'm a bit skeptical of the figure you got for LED's Though.) Lighting efficiency is an oft misunderstood topic that needs to be addressed in my opinion.
Annom, that pic is awesome btw.
Is English your first language Simisu? (Random I know.) For some reason I'm having some trouble understanding everything you write... ("also in this example would be better to describe incandescent lighting as inefficient or to explain that it is not a viable option rather then elaborating on why its less good.")
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Annom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#195039 - 02/12/09 08:37 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I really like that you have the efficiency on there. (I'm a bit skeptical of the figure you got for LED's Though.) Lighting efficiency is an oft misunderstood topic that needs to be addressed in my opinion.
Definitely. The basics about light and efficiency. How it spreads and decreases in intensity, what efficiency is and how this relates to how much heat is created per amount of light.
The text and numbers in the figure are quickly done and should be redone or improved before it can actually be used, it only serves as an example. I only want to spend time on making these kind of diagrams if we all think they are useful and when we agree on the format etc. I agree that the LED figures are a bit high for normal commercial leds. It would be best if we provide a source of information when we can.
Quote:
we can made this picture for example clickable?
That was what I had in mind. You can click on, for example, HPS and get the HPS page or jump to the HPS section in the article.
This is easy in html, but it would be extremely difficult to make it editable in the wiki style. It is a disadvantage of using diagrams, but I plan to stay around for some time and can easily update them if someone suggest new or improved information. I can also publish the source files (in this case MS Visio) so that others can edit them as well (if they have Visio). I should look if open office has a similar feature set.
While I can write some English, it doesn't come natural for me since it's not my first language. That's why I prefer to make diagrams, pictures, layout, edit things etc and leave the writing to someone with good English writing skills. I know I can do some writing, but it takes too much time before I'm satisfied. If you want some pics, diagrams, figures, etc that goes along with some text you wrote, you should ask me! I like to do the visual things since I suck with words 
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#195156 - 02/12/09 05:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Penguin said:
Is English your first language Simisu? (Random I know.) For some reason I'm having some trouble understanding everything you write... ("also in this example would be better to describe incandescent lighting as inefficient or to explain that it is not a viable option rather then elaborating on why its less good.")
nope my first language is Hebrew and yeah, well... i don't always bother with punctuation so maybe sometimes it's a little hard to follow
and actually this sentence does indeed not make too much sense, i should have left the last part out (it's not really necessary)
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It's a WEED man!
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Annom] 1
#195160 - 02/12/09 05:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said:
Quote:
can we make this picture for example clickable?
That was what I had in mind. You can click on, for example, HPS and get the HPS page or jump to the HPS section in the article.
This is easy in html, but it would be extremely difficult to make it editable in the wiki style. It is a disadvantage of using diagrams, but I plan to stay around for some time and can easily update them if someone suggest new or improved information. I can also publish the source files (in this case MS Visio) so that others can edit them as well (if they have Visio). I should look if open office has a similar feature set.
that's great 
Quote:
While I can write some English, it doesn't come natural for me since it's not my first language.
i couldn't tell its not, but yeah i know, it takes longer...
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It's a WEED man!
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Annom] 1
#195507 - 02/13/09 06:35 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said:
What is the difference between 'Cultivation Information' and 'Grow FAQ'. Is there a clear difference between information and questions? You can find info about the same subject in Grow FAQ and Cultivation Information.
Essentially, the difference is that the Grow FAQ was already created by some of the admins, but its intended for content of a certain type of format. I didn't touch the thing because I wasn't altogether clear on what their intentions were regarding it. Although I guess it won't be clearer until the site has a little more content, it would seem that it would actually belong inside the Cultivation Information folder, but I dunno. 
Quote:
Annom said:
For the Growery Grow Guide I was thinking about adding more visual content than most grow guides I have seen.
Its official then, we call it the Growery Grow Guide, 'cause this is the exact title I was going to pitch when I got on today. 
Seriously though, its a good one, we could refer to it as the GGG for short.
I'm definitely in agreement on the visual content piece, my lady and I were thinking that offering a Flash version of at least parts of the main site would be an innovative step to take. We eventually want to start working with animation ourselves, so I could always start learning Flash.... 
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Yrat
Happy Planting
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 886
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Sirius] 1
#195532 - 02/13/09 11:29 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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i like the flash idea
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 "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Yrat] 1
#196178 - 02/15/09 05:58 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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a thought just crossed my mind... would it be possible to embed a Google document into a thread???
otherwise... how can we use google docs to edit together say the first post i made? and make the change visible ON the forum (with no link clicking... cuz i'm pretty sure it's possible to just publish a doc and keep it open for anyone to edit)
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It's a WEED man!
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#196553 - 02/16/09 08:02 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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ok i went a head and made it a google doc... apperently if you want to help edit this doc you would need to have a google account (which i assume most people do?) and send me a request for editing privileges (which i will issue to anyone) only limit is no more then 200 people (by the time we reach so many collaborators we could simply copy it to another doc and republish it, if ever  )
here it is...
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcf9crzk_3hthw3khc
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It's a WEED man!
Edited by Simisu (02/16/09 08:12 AM)
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#196569 - 02/16/09 10:34 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why are we using a google document at all? I'm a bit confused by the idea. We can do anything in the growery wiki that we can do on google docs without risking our identity on a not so privacy oriented company.
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#196596 - 02/16/09 11:43 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's a good point
simply for the fact that publishing it on the main site would look really bad and discourage new users
but i guess you have a good point there, i dunno...
you have a better suggestion?
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It's a WEED man!
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geokills
······· º¿° ·······
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1,287
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#196602 - 02/16/09 12:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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How does using the main site's Content Management System (CMS) make things look bad and/or discourage new users? The CMS allows for HTML formatting capability, which while not always intuitive to new members, can still make things look great if you take the time to really work out the code.
I do understand that there are a couple of functional limitations to using the Content Management System, such as being able to copy/paste UBB Code from forum posts directly into the main site CMS. We should make an effort to categorize all of these limitations, then we'll butter-up Ythan so he will code the functionality for us!
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Do Your Part!
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: geokills] 1
#196604 - 02/16/09 12:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
being able to copy/paste UBB Code from forum posts directly into the main site CMS
Actually geo, I found a super easy way to take care of that problem...
Just straight copy the post as it is viewed (not the code but the finished post) and paste it into the CMS editor input box. You don't need to mess with the code at all because the CMS has a 'What You See Is What You Get' type interface. It doesn't even recognize html unless you open a special window in the CMS editor toolbar. So when you paste things in, the formatting and pictures are preserved.
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Simisu
Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 240
Loc: Israeli in
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: geokills] 1
#196607 - 02/16/09 12:36 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said:
How does using the main site's Content Management System (CMS) make things look bad and/or discourage new users? The CMS allows for HTML formatting capability, which while not always intuitive to new members, can still make things look great if you take the time to really work out the code.
i was referring to the fact that an empty skeleton on the CMS would deter visitors (and uninformed users) from actually looking at the data base, if all was empty blocks just waiting to be filled... for the skeleton alone (which probably doesn't need ALL THAT MUCH work)
there's no problem with the CMS other then the one you mentioned but i think it's best to be adding to it rather then dumping all these subjects in with no content
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It's a WEED man!
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Simisu] 1
#196614 - 02/16/09 12:47 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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We could use a kind of sandbox. An area labeled as under construction or some such thing so it isn't cluttering the main page. (A new folder perhaps?) Once it's finished we could move it to it's rightful place.
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geokills
······· º¿° ·······
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1,287
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Building a good skeleton [Re: Dr. Penguin] 1
#196626 - 02/16/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just straight copy the post as it is viewed (not the code but the finished post) and paste it into the CMS editor input box.
Nice!
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