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Brosef Knecht
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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Roxum]
    #110860 - 08/18/08 10:47 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I read about this a while back.  Seriously fucked up shit.

Quote:

Investigators found that Mount Vernon teacher John Freshwater did burn crosses on some students' arms with an electrostatic device.





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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111023 - 08/18/08 06:28 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
actually evolution isn't that hard to argue against




You can't be serious?

I have no problem with the idea of intelligent design, but any intelligent proponent of intelligent design recognizes that it doesn't contradict the theory of evolution, but rather supplements it.

The fact that evolutionary history can be very accurately traced through the background mutations in the non-conserved regions of the ribosome is a pretty hard bit of evidence to refute.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111083 - 08/18/08 10:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:

I'll just say that your points are full of fallacy, primarily stemming from a misunderstanding of what the theory of evolution claims and does not claim, and leave it at that.  As you say, debate doesn't go anywhere on this site.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111088 - 08/18/08 10:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
why don't you address my argument then.  show me an example of uphill evolution.




Archaeopteryx


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Sativus]
    #111091 - 08/18/08 10:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

or cyanobacteria


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Sativus]
    #111092 - 08/18/08 10:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

or horsetails (the plant)


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Sativus]
    #111093 - 08/18/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

oh, and don't forget sponges, and hydras too


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111101 - 08/18/08 10:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You expect that there exist fossils of every intermediate form?  Are you aware of how rare the conditions are that form fossils, and the fact that the older the fossil, the more likely it is to have been destroyed by geological phenomena?

It sounds like you're appealing to the argument that we don't have the missing links, when in fact we have tons of them.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111105 - 08/18/08 10:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
I'm only arguing that there are many holes in evolution that still exist.




Only if you misinterpret the Theory


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111111 - 08/18/08 10:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
Second Law of Thermodynamics




:what:

You think that life doesn't serve the principle of maximum entropy production?


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Roxum]
    #111122 - 08/18/08 10:41 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No, I'm agnostic.  I don't discount the possibility of an omnipotent God (it seems like a bit of a moot point though), but I tend to view the divine as something a little more naturalistic.  What's that got to do with evolution?

On a mildly related note, I think that molecular biology contains some of the most compelling evidence for Intelligent Design.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111134 - 08/18/08 10:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

No, the Theory of Evolution itself has no inconsistencies.  Some people use it to make dubious claims, oviously.

But evolution is pretty much irrefutable if you're familiar with molecular biology.  As I mentioned before, the background mutations in the non-conserved regions of the ribosome present evidence which is virtually undeniable, especially when taken together with everything we know about biology on the macroscopic and molecular scales.

To me, the only point that can be legitimately doubted is whether there might be a mysterious force acting as a "guiding hand" in the "random" point mutations.  And that's not a question science is capable of adressing, nor does it in any way undermine the theory.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: slackophage]
    #111138 - 08/18/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Also, just to be clear, I'm not one of those people who believe religiously in the infallability of Science.  For example, I'm not convinced by the Big Bang theory.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: THEBats]
    #111146 - 08/18/08 11:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe, but if it does I don't know how.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Coaster]
    #111149 - 08/18/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but you'd need to start with either matter or energy. Where'd the stuff getting converted come from?


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Sativus]
    #111151 - 08/18/08 11:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Another interesting point: e=mc2 deals with mass and energy. But what is mass really?  If you buy the Higgs-Boson idea, then how does the rest of matter enter into this?


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: andyistic]
    #111163 - 08/18/08 11:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

But it's an interesting point to think about... I guess string theory could account for it if you don't mind the idea that we're living in about a dozen dimensions.  I'm hoping that CERN will soon confirm or deny the higgs boson idea.


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: maggotz]
    #111522 - 08/19/08 09:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

That's a bummer, I was hoping they could shed some light on it within a few month of starting to collide particles.

(And your post count is 666!  :devil: )


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Re: Fucked Up Shit [Re: Agent00]
    #111527 - 08/19/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Also, I don't think I addressed this point as well as I could have:

Quote:

We also see in the fossil record distinct species not mutations between the too.




The thing is, every time that we find a missing link, it just creates two new "missing links" on either side of the one we found.  The more missing links we find, the more links we are "missing".


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