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 Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
 
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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 Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line  [Re: Sativus]
#106025 - 08/08/08 02:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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female cirumcision and male circumsision are quite different things.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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 Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
#106026 - 08/08/08 02:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
yellownotepad said:
when someone is too young, too handicapped, too submissive, or too afraid, or otherwise unable to say yes or no, that is when it is wrong.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
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Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106028 - 08/08/08 02:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sativus said:
Quote:
yellownotepad said:
when someone is too young, too handicapped, too submissive, or too afraid, or otherwise unable to say yes or no, that is when it is wrong.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
#106029 - 08/08/08 02:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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So we shouldn't breastfeed babies because they're incapable of making informed decisions? Great logic. 
That's why I call it mindless reductionism.
Come on man, you're not stupid, you got a 1450 sat score. The fact that I have 40 points on you shouldn't mean my points fly over your head.
No where did I say I agree with female circumcision. But to say that my disapproval isn't culturally-founded is rediculous.
All I'm saying is that he's grossly misconstruing the issue and throwing up straw men.
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Hanky
Fat Ladies Bingo
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 2,397
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: andyistic]
#106030 - 08/08/08 02:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can anyone provide evidence to back the claim about the tribe of cock suckers? I for one don't believe it for a second.
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Coaster Said: "wut do u post bout flumbooyon"
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Hanky]
#106031 - 08/08/08 02:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://www.apa.org/divisions/Div51/Summer%202006%20Bulletin/06.htm
Quote:
It was in the Melanesian culture area—encompassing Papua-New Guinea—where, well into the 20th century, the erotic—in fact homoerotic—energy of male initiation was perhaps most clearly evident (Tejirian, 1990). There, transactions of semen between older and younger males were a pervasive feature of male initiation. Living in proximity with adolescent boys, it was necessary that they perform fellatio on the older, sexually mature boys since it was thought that only by the ingestion of semen on a regular basis would they be able to mature sexually themselves.
And you better appreciate that, because googling "indigenous fellatio become a man" made me feel like a dirty boy.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106034 - 08/08/08 02:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sativus said:
So we shouldn't breastfeed babies because they're incapable of making informed decisions? Great logic.
That's why I call it mindless reductionism.
Come on man, you're not stupid, you got a 1450 sat score. The fact that I have 40 points on you shouldn't mean my points fly over your head.
No where did I say I agree with female circumcision. But to say that my disapproval isn't culturally-founded is rediculous.
All I'm saying is that he's grossly misconstruing the issue and throwing up straw men.
i think female circumcision violates basic ethical tenets regardless of culture.
granted my part of my objection is cultural but in the case of female circumcision i think that crosses an ethical line that goes beyond just cultural differences, though it they are a factor obviously.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
#106035 - 08/08/08 02:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Care to back that up with reasoning instead of emotionalism?
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106038 - 08/08/08 02:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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alright well basically a coerced procedure that takes away the pleasure of sex for a woman is committing a transgression against another human being.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
#106045 - 08/08/08 02:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doitagain said:
granted my part of my objection is cultural but in the case of female circumcision i think that crosses an ethical line that goes beyond just cultural differences, though it they are a factor obviously.
I think the point is that it isn't about "cultural differences", but rather that the idea that the meaning we assign an act is culturally conditioned. I don't think anyone is saying that, because an act is committed due to cultural differences, it is acceptable, but rather that our entire perspective on the act, regardless of what that perspective is, is the result of cultural conditioning.
Clearly, the conditioning that respects human life and the rights of others to not be inflicted with harmful procedures or to be subjected to sexual acts would be the one that is most preferable ("right" and "wrong" just don't exist IMO), when one applies reason and logic, which transcend culture to the greatest extent possible.
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
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Loc: The Milky Way
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: yellownotepad]
#106046 - 08/08/08 02:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
yellownotepad said:
with the arguments being made in this thread you could say rape is ok in cultures that allow it.
If you're referring to my arguments, then this is just your misinterpretation. I am not advocating any outlook on any matter, simply recognizing the nature of reality. 
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Brugman
))<>((
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 590
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: andyistic]
#106061 - 08/08/08 03:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Right from the beginning, I hated this guy. It went to ratings, then PMs. I knew something was fucked about him, then he did all kinds of more fucked up shit.
Good riddance, I say.
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Hanky
Fat Ladies Bingo
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 2,397
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Brugman]
#106069 - 08/08/08 04:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I once thought he was weird but harmless that was far from true. He's scum.
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Coaster Said: "wut do u post bout flumbooyon"
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Brugman
))<>((
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 590
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Hanky]
#106073 - 08/08/08 04:16 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, at first. He just gave off this ...odd vibe, though. Only person I've ever nignored.
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ezKiel
All About the Haze
Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 2,474
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106104 - 08/08/08 08:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sativus said:
Quote:
ezKiel said:
Morals aren't universal but fucked up shit is.
Then how do you respond to the tribe of cocksucking preteens?
I respond by pointing out there are something like 7 billion people in the world.
I never said fucked up shit didn't happen. Just that it was still fucked up.
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: ezKiel]
#106106 - 08/08/08 08:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ezKiel said:
Quote:
Sativus said:
Quote:
ezKiel said:
Morals aren't universal but fucked up shit is.
Then how do you respond to the tribe of cocksucking preteens?
I respond by pointing out there are something like 7 billion people in the world.
...ok? 
Quote:
I never said fucked up shit didn't happen. Just that it was still fucked up.
You have zero reading comprehension, don't you?
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Doitagain]
#106107 - 08/08/08 08:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doitagain said:
alright well basically a coerced procedure that takes away the pleasure of sex for a woman is committing a transgression against another human being.
And transgressions against other human beings are inherently wrong?
I'd like to point again to our culturally-sanctioned raping and pillaging of the third world. That's a serious transgression against millions of other human beings. Looks pretty fucking fucked up to me. But our cultural consensus encourages this activity as not only necessary, but as serving the ultimate force of good (the economy).
Think about killing, for another good example. We generally consider the taking of other human life to be wrong (unless they happen to be brown and in an oil-rich country, but that's another issue; I'm talking about killing someone from your own civilization). But then, on the other hand, you have traditions of ritual human sacrifice stretching far back in time. If the killing of another member of your civilization is inherently wrong (as a transgression against another human being), how come so many cultures worked it into their religious practices?
I think I've expressed myself well enough to leave the topic alone now. I'm just trying to point out that what's right and wrong, even on issues we see as fundamental human rights, is totally culturally subjective. Within a community, we can make sure these things are clearly delineated; the Growery by consensus sees child porn as reprehensible, and flaming as a good amusing pasttime. We're all on essentially the same page; that doesn't mean that any independently developing community needs to agree with us.
Edited by Sativus (08/08/08 08:56 AM)
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106142 - 08/08/08 10:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sativus said:
Care to back that up with reasoning instead of emotionalism?
it is a forcefully done procedure done against the woman's will by elders, and beyond the procedure itself has a high incident of fatal complications from various issues with it and giving birth with the scar tissue that results. nobody died from getting their dick clipped. these women are being brutalized at age 16. that's not culture, that's wrong. if it was cultural conditioning do you think that women in these countries would be running away to avoid it? there has been more than one publicized case about women running away to seek asylum from exactly this.
again, my point about rape and murder is that i don't see where you draw the line on what is and is not acceptable. to me tribal rituals and things are fine, but perverse acts committing against unwilling and or unconsenting individuals is just basic. nobody would want it to happen to them, and thats a pretty good metric for saying nobody should do it.
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Sativus
Brosef Knecht
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,486
Loc: PNW
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: yellownotepad]
#106143 - 08/08/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I never said I approve of rape and murder, just as I never said I support preteen cocksucking or female circumcision.
I suggest you read my response to DoItAgain.
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yellownotepad
Pharmaceutical Agriculturalist
Registered: 06/22/08
Posts: 1,702
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: kidaihaun - Bottom line [Re: Sativus]
#106144 - 08/08/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sativus said:
Not well enough. There's still too many child-circumsizing Jews still running around for yellownotepad's taste.
your comment is quite ignorant of the subject matter. read up on female circumcision. you'll realize this is like you comparing spanking a child to beating a wife.
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